[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: wishes (Re: gac experiment)



So I wrote some comments on your statements below. 
Just ignore. They aren't worth reading it.

I think the discussion between you will show no fruits.

This is simple to explain:

You just think about your moral integrity and are to involved in
former ideas of irc: opers and users should be equal, and opers
should only be operating servers. this did work for some time.
But we are in the days of TFN and kids who have control over
vast flood potential. 

I give my spare time as lots of other opers to make irc a better
place. There was a time when even I tried not to kill any abusers.

But things have changed. Often when I leave IRC I am frustrated.
It's not any more to provide a service to the people. It's about
listening to frustrated users, watching server statistics if
we are under DOS-attack ... the chats between opers are about
DOS and kids.

Did you ever think about opers loosing fun in irc-administration?
Beleave me - there are many out there. If administration is
not improved to ease our work and if IRC-protocol isn't improved 
so that layer 7 DOS is canceled many of us will just fade away
or split. Did you think about this? Or are you just sitting in
your wizard tower and thinking about how nice it is to code
a balanced service?

I don't understand you. Why do you close your eyes?

jochen



On Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 09:12:47AM -0500, Christophe Kalt wrote:
> On Feb 02, Jochen Kaiser wrote:
> | My personal wishlist:
> | 
> | It is based on:
> | - more administrative power to the opers.
> 
> this isn't about ircd, only ircd administration.

better administration needs better means.

> 
> | - less information to the users
> 
> so, more power to opers, less to users?

no. more power to opers, less to kiddies.
ordinary chatter will not feel the difference in information
policy.

> | 1. make !-channels the default channel type. 
> |    Either remove #-Channels complete (I know this is radical) or
> |    make them + by default so that user is forced to use the new ones.
> 
> this one i still don't understand.
> * many tell me that i wasted my time on !channels, and that
>   they're a big faillure.  (i wonder about it myself)

it's simple: kids don't like the !-symbol (it's true ...)

> * more and more often, people ask that you just did.  i have
>   many problems with that:
>   + it is very radical and not very sensible
yeah. 

>   + why not also disable &channels? :)

they are useful indeed for limited users.

>   + you can't drop things which are so standard.. (s/can't/shouln't/ ?)
you can. just make #-channels modeless by default. users will
happily migrate to !-channels.

>   + i really think that most users will hate it.

stopping chatting is even better then hanging around in IRC
whole time ...

> 
> the last point is possibly the most important.  there could
> be some toggable flag to allow ircnet servers to disable
> #channels, afterall it wouldn't be the first time we do this
> kind of thing for ircnet.
> but i really think that many users (will) prefer #channels over
> !channels simply for the very reason that you can take them
> over.  this kind of thing is very easy to find out with some
> sensible experiments/polls.

[no comment]

> 
> | 2. No connections after Operator kill from this host for 15 minutes.
> |    This would be a good means against spammers and kiddies.
> 
> at the u@h level or @h level?
> the first won't work well, and the latter is called DoS.
> (besides, when one sees the kind of kills many opers do, one
> ponders on how reasonnable this is)
> [i'm also ignoring the technical problems if you intend to
> have all servers react on all kills.]

then we need faster links and servers. if we want to provide a
quality product, we need quality ressources.

> 
> | 6. if +o is set, you may ignore +m.
> |    useful for #opers e.g.
> 
> try to live as a user once in a while.
> what makes you think that you're so different with your
> shining star?

So that I can say in a opless and moderated channel that users
shall leave so that channel may be founded newly.

> 
> | 7. to read &-channels, you need +o set.
> |    all the kiddies waiting there for squit messages
> 
> and?
what and?
> 
> | 8. spyservice: may ignore usermode +i for people registered
> |    there. queries are posted to a & - channel to protocol
> |    misuse.
> 
> sure, i mean.. privacy is already so bad, why not make it
> worse?

ok. this point may be too evil indeed. cancel it.
> 
> | My personal dislikes:
> | 
> | 1. I don't want me to evade +b +i +s +p. Reason for this is simple:
> |   a) I don't want to know anything. Users also need their privacy
> |   b) I don't want to know what's going on in these *porn* *warez*
> |      *shellz* chans, because if I'd know, someone could expect me
> |      to be responsible for it. (depends on local law...)
> 
> if you understand these very good points, why do you still
> wish for these things?  (this is an honest question.)
> 
> | 2. I don't want any @-superpower. This is outbalancing the
> |    oper-user relationship and is stealing the character of ircnet.
> 
> @ or * ?
> it my strong feeling that all should be as equal as possible.

nice thought. failed in all day irc-life. kids nowadays
are even stronger then a bunch of opers. 
So don't talk about equality. They are playing with us, even if
we are nice and have moral integrity - and -
they just begun.

-- 
Jochen Kaiser          		                   phone +49 9131 85-28134
Network Administration           mailto:jochen.kaiser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Regionales Rechenzentrum Universitaet Erlangen-Nuernberg, Germany