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Re: wishes (Re: gac experiment)
Hoi,
ok, I won't merge in, but now ... well, it's hopeless :)
Quoting Christophe Kalt <kalt@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> this one i still don't understand.
> * many tell me that i wasted my time on !channels, and that
> they're a big faillure. (i wonder about it myself)
Well, this is a psychological problem ... or a physical,
if u want (physical laws apply to humans too).
The problem is...
People are lazy ... they don't want new things. This does
not only belong to IRC people but to all people all over the
world. There are management sciences dealing with this problem
and working on solutions.
People are unschooled ... they don't know about new things.
If u want to change this, u have to blast a bunch of information
at them ... 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and 4 weeks a month,
and after a few months, they "have heard something about it".
Bots don't know !channels. Well, where's the problem, who
cares about bots? Right. But u do care about users and ...
unfortunately but true ... users care about bots.
The "old newbies" know, that channels are the '#'ed ones.
Well, the real guys don't know anything about channels
with names or channel modes or something, but these guys
are rare :)
People don't know about &channels, +channels, !channels
and all the "new things" (don't blame me, I know, they
aren't new ... blame users :)).
I'd bet, if u'd implemented CD/ND on a peoples choice base,
let's say, they'd to set some channel/usermode to activate it,
they'd not done it and they were still complaining about
collisions.
U've forced CD/ND to the users. CD/ND does not have only
advantages, so it was a "very radical and not very sensible"
step, but it was working.
I'm not informed about the actual state of uniqe NickNames,
but I bet, if u don't force users to use it, they won't do
it.
Why working on new things living side-by-side with old things?
Why don't work on a "transparent migration"?
I guess, the work that has been done to get the new !channels
work side by side with the "old world" would cost nearly the
same as the work that had to be done to make #channels
unique-ID-able and this transparent to users.
Yes, I know... this would be hard work and it would be a
philosophic problem too, if the server does things, that
clients should do, if the server hides things, that the
client should hide.
Well, philosophy is, keep servers small and simple.
Okay, but philosophy is too, servers serve things on
some abstraction layer. Our abstraction layer is RFC1459.
We can change the server-to-server-communication-protocol
and this is hard enough, but it's easy, because there are
few servers (142 to be exactly :)).
Changing the client-to-server-communication-protocol would
be much more harder, so we need to abstract the new things
to the old protocol. We need to do things transparent to
the client, not only to the user.
... just a work around the ego and principles :)
And ... where was the real problem in hiding unique IDs
as long as possible (means, server hides them, until it
needs to show them, because there are two different ones).
The work doing this would be not so much more than the
work doing the actual behaviour.
The work to migrate to unique-ID-#channels would be near
the same as the work to introduce !channels.
The !channel-"desaster" should show us some things.
We should learn something from it.
Maybe we should learn ... force users to use changed old
things is much more better and much more accepted than
giving users the choice to use new things.
This ... in turn ... could teach us one bad thing...
Users don't want changes, so let's don't change anything
at all.
This is wrong. Users want changes, but they don't want to
"do new things". They want to do the things they ever did
and expect something new, better, cool, whatever u like.
This ... btw. ... is the way +gac works ... (no need to
argue about +gac).
One last example and short story at the end...
I "have" "my" little !channel, of course :)
I am there ... alone. And some times, there are some visitors.
They come in and they all do the same ... they ask. They
ask things like "hey, what the hell is that?".
If I'm there and awake, I tell them some things about take
over kiddies, some things about technical background of take
overs, some things about !channels and why they do reduce
the problem.
The reactions are all the same (or near the same) ... "cool",
"nice", "good idea" ... and they leave and they do never
come back. And they don't use !channels at all.
And so I'm alone on my little !channel and I'm happy, but
I'm alone.
... don't want to say, that I don't like it like it is :)
... no need to argue the other points of the previous mail :)
regards,
Mario
--
Mario Holbe http://www.rz.tu-ilmenau.de/~holbe/
User sind wie ideale Gase - sie verteilen sich gleichmaessig ueber alle Platten
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