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Re: wishes (Re: gac experiment)
Hi,
one first thing before, Engerim... I guess, u don't really know very much
about irc, protocol, users, psychology and politics, but that's my personal
notion based on your previous mails. Just for thinking about it...
Quoting Thomas Kuiper <engerim@xxxxxxxxxx>:
> > But we are in the days of TFN and kids who have control over
> > vast flood potential.
> And you really think a gac patched server whould help it?
> Or connecting a script as server to collide them? No, you played
> with them, and thats all they want. News pages about "war crews"
The main key is, kiddies are killing servers in every way they know to take
channels.
There might be some other minor reasons, for example revange for kills or
fun or something and of course they would convert to major reasons, if we'd
establish some way that makes it useless to kill servers to take channels.
But these other reasons are quite less frequent than the main reason (we
have 20.000 channels but only 142 servers with - let's say 700 opers).
This means, if we could establish some way that makes it useless to flood
servers for taking channels, these attacks would shrink noticeable.
So far for the administrative concern.
+gac tries exactly this. And it works - not good ... maybe, not complete
... maybe. No mention about the way it does, but it does and this is more
than every other thingy can provide at the moment and this is the reason
for admins to use it. Btw. please stop shouting against the author of +gac.
Guenthi just wrote one thingy, that protects his users and let them chat.
Blame the admins they use it.
Now the human concern ...
We offer a service. This service is called chat. We provide an ability to
chat to people. Every kind of abuse, if it's channel overtake, nick
collision or something else detains at least some of our users to use
this ability, so we need to call it DoS ... Denial of Service. As kind
mentioned correctly ... Layer 7 DoS.
If we do nothing against this DoS, we do not offer our service anymore.
Then, we offer a service to harass chatters but not a service to chat.
This is the reason for admins to protect their users against this DoS, this
is the reason for admins to use +gac for example.
This is even the reason for admins to merge in channel matters, to fight
against the abusers, to neutralize the DoS ... to play with the abusers,
as u call it. Why they do that? Quite simple. They have no other way to do
it at the moment. The ideal way would be to make the DoS impossible. One
simple but quite less ideal way would be offering the admins better
possibilities to neutralize the DoS.
> > it's simple: kids don't like the !-symbol (it's true ...)
> yeah, lets exchange the prefix from # to ! and from ! to #,
[one simple character, no problems with takeovers, #channel2]
> abusers which even causes more abuse by them.
As I mentioned before, humans are flock animals.
Maybe, I'm happy with being alone on my !channel, because no flock follows me,
but most people would not be happy with that, because they use IRC to chat,
to have fun and not like me as a telephone like thingy.
For those people it makes a difference, if they use well known structures or
pretty well unknown structures.
In germany, we have a law, that impresses such things, it's called
"Gewohnheitsrecht" - the right to follow it's habits. Not that I suggest to
apply rights to users, I only suggest, that this fact is also respected by
laws, so it seems to be an important fact.
> wake up! why they play with you? it always takes two to play.
They play, because it's fun for them.
And some of us feel forced to play with, because they feel blackmailed.
Their offer is quite simple ... try to stop our attacks (play with us,
because u have no other way to do that at the moment) or we continue
attacking ur users.
> It's a diffrent thing fighting abusers and hunting abusers.
I don't wanna play and I don't wanna fight and I don't wanna hunt.
I just want a way, that makes it impossible to attack my users or better
(I don't care about users :)) I just want a way, that makes it impossible
to Denial my Service.
regards,
Mario
--
Mario Holbe http://www.rz.tu-ilmenau.de/~holbe/
User sind wie ideale Gase - sie verteilen sich gleichmaessig ueber alle Platten
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