Re: changing channels (Re: no split modes patch)

[Joern Westermann <westermann@xxxxxxxx>]

Christophe Kalt wrote:
> 
> |                                                     Just change the
> | behaviour of those channel types to that of !-channels! Of course this
> | means that we need to switch the whole network to 2.11 at once but I
> | don't think that would be much of a problem.
> 
> i think history has proven time and time again, that such
> requirement is a problem.

Sorry, I disagree. We have a finite number of servers. If most of the
server admins agree we could set a date for the global move to 2.11
(e.g. 2000-06-01 00:00 GMT). It should be possible for every admin to
compile+install the new version and even make a few tests.
If I understand uid right then users can still be collided from a 2.10
in a mixed 2.11-2.10 network. And it'll probably take a year for the
last server admins to upgrade to 2.11 if you don't force them somehow.
> 
> | Users don't accept !-channels because the major channels are of the
> | older type. I don't see a reason why we still should mess with channel
> | collides in 2.11. It's time for a change... :-)
> 
> the other half of the problems with !channels is that they
> have long been ill-supported by clients.

Unfortunately support in e.g. mIRC is far away from "perfect". I think
Khaled will support !-channels and the new uid-features (if needed in
client) much faster if one of the 3 biggest IRC-networks is going to
2.11 altogether!
> 
> but anyway, i think that +channels have a (very limited) use.
> these could probably be removed, but why bother?
> [BTW, it's easy to create opless channels with !ones :)]

Agreed.

> 
> #channels are okay as well.  many channels don't need to be
> collide proof, many people don't care.
> 
> for those who do, they should move.  yes, it's hard to move
> big long time channels.  And may be this is where
> admins/opers could help.  They should encourage it, and work
> towards it.
> it only takes the cooperation of a few people on these
> channel to achieve this.  a bot can easily be left behind to
> point people to the right channel.
> 
> and it would only take a few of these moves to create a
> greater awareness among users.

Normal users are lazy. They don't want to learn anything new about
channels if they don't have to. We had this discussion with users dozens
of times after a channel takeover ("use #channel:*.de, use !-channel"),
but after the channel was free again, they joined the old channel.
At the current level of client support for !-channels I can really
understand this!
What we need is a user-proof client support, where a users gets a dialog
box with all channel alternatives, if he tries to join a certain !- (or
#-) channel. For example: User tries to join !germany. But due to
several splits there are now 3 different !germany-channels. A dialog
pops up with the number of users on each channels, user clicks on
largest channel, voila!

  Guenthi
-- 
Jörn Westermann   *   noris network GmbH   *  Tel.: (0911) 93 52-0
joern@xxxxxxxx * Ihr Internet-Provider in Nuernberg * Fax: 93 52-100