Re: [Re: [Re: nick collide prevention ideas]]

[m de`jour <b4y2k@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

borud@xxxxxxx wrote:
> [m de`jour]
> | 
> | After reading your comments about many of my other suggestions, and
> | the technical and practical concerns, I think the last idea about
> | adding an optional /rnick function would be the easiest to
> | implement.
> 
> say that I want to take over a channel.  I connect to two servers that
> have a few seconds of lag between them.  I monitor nick changes on the
> local server on each of the connections and when a nick change happens
> I duplicate it on the other server a fraction of a second later --
> which I can due to the lag.  then what?

You can't duplicate it.  That is the premise.  All nicks requested with the
/rnick command would be 1] random and more importantly, 2] protected from
intentional duplication.

betty >> server:  /rnick
server >> *** betty is now known as 3bd^jsb`3

x-collidr tries:  /nick 3bd^jsb`3
server >> x-collidr -notice- "Sorry x-collidr, you cannot request a nick
starting with a digit or -"

or better yet:
on x-collidr /nick 3bd^jsb`3
if 1st char $nickwanted is not digit or - { halt}
ifexist 3bd^jsb`3
/kill x-collidr "Do not try to nick collide others"

;)


> | The most likely application would be for 24/7 connection clients
> | such as automated bots and screened ircII/BitchX type clients.
> 

> if someone takes over the channel, move to a different channel.  if
> you manage to constantly attract negative attention find out why and
> perhaps set up your own, dedicated  IRC server.
> 
> I've lived by the principle of keeping a low profile and just
> disappearing if trouble shows up on the channel me and my friends
> use at the moment.
 
Set up ones own IRC server?  The principle of community seems lost with that
idea.  People don't come to IRC for isolation.  They come to meet others and
in time form bonds of friendship.  the more the better.  there are hundreds of
small cozy, lonely peaceful irc nets and servers.  But the big nets continue
to grow because because they have more people to meet.

If you have little or no roots, no community bonds, your "bail out/abandon
ship" principle makes sense.  But if you have an established community worth
having it is worth preserving and protecting.

Many others like the security, consistancy and comfort of familiar faces and
atmosphere.  And the only way to control atmosphere is to be able to exercise
chan op powers.

Also, there is the namebrand factor for some cases.  Certain channels are
generic, common to almost all nets.  These tend to include those listed on the
mIRC distribution channel list for obvious reasons.  Examples would be
#chatzone, #hottub, #funfactory, #beginner, #cyberchat, etc.  Connect to
almost any net and try to join those channels.  Odds are you will find them
inhabited.

Is that significant?  Most certainly.  Channels such as those guarantee a
fresh flow of new and at times even interesting persons.  If you are
interested in meeting new people, and having an active, namebrand channel
offer that, a steady influx of new faces without having to spam with mass
invites or messages.  If you have built your community around such a channel
and have some social attachments to those that frequent that channel, it is
not something you lightly pass off nonchalantly.  You have both old familiar
friends and also a regular stream of fresh new faces to interact with.  You
don't have that with "cut and run" channel operation.

Does it matter who the ops are so?  Most certainly.  Those with chan op powers
can use they for good or not.  They can control the atmosphere.  And some
persons beleive it or not like a controlled, consisant, confortable
atmosphere, a place "where everybody knows your name", etc..  Having
delinquent children take control will destroy the atmosphere and community
that many prefer.

Maintaining control makes keeping in touch very easy.  Often old friends
wander back for a visit that have been away for months or even over a year. 
Such reunions can be very refreshing and that benefits is lost with the
"throwaway, disposable channel" philosophy.

Leading a vagabond existance with no home channel, moving at the first sign of
trouble might suit some, but that is not necessarily a satisfactory solution
for others.

Why has #eu-opers stayed at that same location?  Surely IRCops of all people
have the knowledge and powers to trackdown other IRCops should they need to
communicate.  And they could pick a new channel everyday and still be able to
find one another quickly, far more easily than others could track down there
group of friends, their community.

There are undeniable benefits to a home channel and to simply blow of the
common tendency to build and protect a community defies basic human nature.  I
am not suggesting that the IRCops should mediate channel matters, but
solutions so simple as the /rnick concept or the more elaborate uniqueID idea
would help simple people protect themselves from the hoards of embittered
youth that have become bored with nintendo and prefer to playout their fantasy
domination games on IRC.



> if you beat the troublemakers by not giving them what they want,
> pretty soon you'll see that you don't need bots and you don't need to
> be on IRC 24/7.

By abandoning an established, well known channel, you give them what they
want: 1] an established namebrand channel and 2] bragging rights which feeds
the infantile mentality of those who play takeover games.  You beat them by
surviving their attacks, not by capitulating and letting them have their way. 
To do that only encourages them to be more abusive, more aggressive.


> | failure.  Colliding 99% of the target ops is not good enough.  It has to
be
> | 100% or nothing.  In the simplest form, a channel of ten ops could be
> | protected against mass collides if just one op decides to use  this
special
> | random nick.
> 
> if I have understood this correctly, when that nick is collided it
> changes automatically?  how do you ensure that the collider doesn't
> pull the trick I mentioned earlier?  

What trick?  lag collides?

You did not understand correctly.  The nicks assigned by /rnicks cannot be
collided.  Those that want collide protection use /rnick before needed and a
protected nick is assigned by the server, for which there are over 100
trillion random, *un-requestable* variations.


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