Re: [Re: [Re: nick collide prevention ideas]]

[borud@xxxxxxx]

[m de`jour]
|  
| Set up ones own IRC server?  The principle of community seems lost
| with that idea.

my experience with this is different.  I usually hang out on a couple
of channels where 15-30 people are usually online at the same time,
out of a group of perhaps 50-100.  the community is the _people_, not
the channel name.  if someone takes over the channel: fine, we let the
other people know where we are and we leave.

the result is that people don't bother even trying to sabotage IRC for
us because they know that we don't care about power-games.  I assume
that if we were frequently attacked we would set up our own server
and move there.  probably requiring a password to connect or something
to that effect.

the only type of channel this wouldn't work for is the kind of channel
where people go to _meet_ new people.  if you already have a bunch of
people on a channel it works brilliantly.

| Many others like the security, consistancy and comfort of familiar
| faces and atmosphere.  And the only way to control atmosphere is to
| be able to exercise chan op powers.

that is true if exercising power is part of what you want -- and often
that is ALL some people want (why couldn't thet go play on a MUD
instead?).  I first and foremost want to keep in touch with "my
crowd".  I can't even remember the last time someone was kicked.
usually if people get pissed off they just leave instead of picking a
silly fight.

| Also, there is the namebrand factor for some cases.  Certain
| channels are generic, common to almost all nets.  These tend to
| include those listed on the mIRC distribution channel list for
| obvious reasons.  Examples would be #chatzone, #hottub, #funfactory,
| #beginner, #cyberchat, etc.  Connect to almost any net and try to
| join those channels.  Odds are you will find them inhabited.

so?

| Why has #eu-opers stayed at that same location?

the fact that a channel by that name still exists doesn't mean it is
the same channel.  #eu-opers is not the same people talking about the
same things they talked about 3-4-5-6 years ago.

last time I looked #eu-opers was festering with noisy wannabes.
people have moved elsewhere and let the people who wrecked the channel
have it -- more or less.

I never go there anymore.  

| By abandoning an established, well known channel, you give them what
| they want: 1] an established namebrand channel and 2] bragging
| rights which feeds the infantile mentality of those who play
| takeover games. 

why would the channel name be important?  it is only important if you
make it important and if you agree to play their silly games.  if you
want a "brand" then start your own IRC server.  the software is
available and most clients can handle several servers at once.

as for bragging, this only hurts you if you actually care.  most
people are foolish enough to they give the attacker exactly what they
want:  a struggle.  they want you to be upset.  they want to see you
try to win their game.  they do not want you to disappear.

| You beat them by surviving their attacks, not by capitulating and
| letting them have their way.  To do that only encourages them to be
| more abusive, more aggressive.

I believe you are wrong.  I believe that on IRC agression met by
agression will only escalate things.  if they try to strike and you
are not there, now that isn't going to give them much satisfaction.
and how much fun is it to take over a channel only to find that within
minutes you are alone on it and nobody even tries to join it?


the only reason I can see for people trying to hold a channel on some
large network is because they like the sense of power and control.
"look at me!  I can pretend I own some piece of state information on
this large net".  I'm not so sure the attackers are really the
greatest problem -- I think the people who inspire them by "defending"
themselves are equally to blame because then you're actually playing
the same game.

and who is to say who has the rights to some channel?  on IRCnet at
least, nobody owns channels.  

-Bjørn